Lucas Leiva - Vickery and Duarte’s words of wisdom from 2008

By royhendo // February 10 2011

Earlier today I watched a MilanKakaBaros’s video compilation of Lucas Leiva during Liverpool’s match with Chelsea this weekend. It got me thinking. Shortly after the game I tweeted “A pass and move team suits a pass and move player”, and while some might disagree, I firmly believe that to be the case. The last day or two have seen the English media struggle to get to grips with the conundrum that is Jack Wilshere, and it’s been laughable to hear certain elements try. It seems a player isn’t worthy of note unless he’s sliding at full speed into bone rattling tackles, or pinging thirty yard balls to switch the play, or rifling shots into the postage stamp from outside the box. When your approach is less pronounced, oh how the pundits struggle.

The debate over Lucas Pezzini Leiva has over the years been real Groundhog Day stuff. The same old nonsense gets trotted out again and again, and every time you wonder whether the people making comment are blessed with the gift of sight. “He doesn’t do anything”, “He gives the ball away all the time”, “He’ll never have what it takes to make it as a top level midfielder”, “He’s too slow”, “He dawdles on the ball”, and so on and so on and so on. It keeps happening, despite there being less and less evidence to support it.

In the spring of 2008, I had the pleasure of exchanging emails with Tim Vickery and Fernando Duarte, both prominent media experts on Brazilian football, about the little blondie’s merits, and about the nature of midfield play in Brazil itself.

This was years ago mind, but here was the text I sent both men.

A few of us Liverpool fans have been engaged in a debate over the merits of former Bola De Ouro winner Lucas Leiva. Related to this discussion, people went digging for comments from fans of his former club Gremio, to get a feel for their feeligns on the player.

Many of them seem to compare him with Falcao, who the older lags among us might remember from the 82 world cup and brief European encounters against Leidholm’s Roma side (for example, with Dundee United and Liverpool).

Their description, however, leads me to my question.

Falcao is described as a ‘volante’, which is apparently Brazilian for ‘steering wheel’. Likewise, Lucas is described as a ‘second volante’ who plays best when a good ‘volante de contencion’ is played behind him.

Now, the description hints at a ‘volante’ being a player with acute positional awareness who looks to link play and do the understated thing - the effective, efficient thing. The quote from Fernando Duarte’s interview with Falcao seems to sum it up:

“My style was a result of the training back then. You wouldn’t see me trying loads of nutmegs or turns, but I always paid attention to precision in passing and positioning. Although I was playing in a holding role, I had to be able to support the strikers and attacking midfielders, too.”

so - a long-winded way of getting to the question… but can you (or anyone else for that matter) explain the ‘volante’ concept and the variants of the role, as compared with the European concepts of libero, regista, and so forth?

I’ve a feeling we don’t understand the concept well enough and don’t really have examples of who the archetypal ‘second volante’ and ‘volante de contencion’ are.

Yours hopefully…

So I clicked “Send” on my two little emails and thought nothing more of it really, because it was speculative and I didn’t really expect a reply. So imagine my surprise when two emails from the talented Messrs Duarte and Vickery arrived in my Inbox.

Fernando Duarte had prompted my emails with his interview of Falcao for Champions magazine - an absolute pleasure to read. In fact, it’s maybe best to drop in a few snippets.

“Falcao is best characterised by what he didn’t do. He didn’t touch the ball in the build-up to Eder’s goal for Brazil against USSR in the 1982 World Cup. The spectatcular long-range strike did no little credit to the scorer himself - but it is famous because when Socrates turned the ball back into play from near the byline, Falcao spread his feet at the last minute and let the ball run through. He knew Eder had drifted in behind him, and the subtle move wrong-footed a penalty area full of Russians.

There could be no better example of Falcao’s penetrating vision - or his ability to make simple play sublime. He didn’t do fancy footwork - unless it was technically or politically necessary.

Before Falcao’s debut for Roma in a friendly, Giallorossi chairman Dino Viola, piqued at having missed out on signing Zico, instructed him: “Fans expect sensational play from a Brazilian, the kind they don’t see over here. Don’t disappoint me.”

Towards the end of the game, Falcao raised his arm to the president in the stand, took possession of the ball, flicked it over an opponent’s head with his heel, and unleashed a left-footed volley that grazed the post.

“I did it to please you - just this once,” he told Viola after the game. “But don’t ask me to do it again. Tricks are for performing seals.”

When La Repubblica declared that Falcao was the best Brazilian to play in Serie A since overseas players were readmitted in 1980, they described him as “the least Brazilian of them all, like a Swiss in the way he made a team function. Brazilian in his feet, but with a European mentality, so he adapted straight away.”

Dubbing his style as European is unfair. That would make him a holding player, or a water carrier. Few teams are built around such men, as Nils Liedholm built the early 1980s Roma side around the man with the John McEnroe coiff. More tellingly, the Brazilian term for his role is volante - ‘steering wheel’.

The English labels don’t do justice to Falcao, and they represent what most irks him in the modern game. “I’m not saying the older generation were more talented, but midfielders neeeded to be more versatile when I was playing,” he says, gripping coffee cups as tactical aids. “We had to help up front, too, not just worry about marking.

“My style was a result of the training back then. You wouldn’t see me trying loads of nutmegs or turns, but I always paid attention to precision in passing and positioning. Although I was playing in a holding role, I had to be able to support the strikers and attacking midfielders, too.”

So little surprise then to see Fernando’s take on Lucas, and on the role he was said to embody.

Volante is a name given to Brazilian midfielders who are not in charge of creating stuff but who in theory should be able to do more than mark or disarm opponents - which is why Falcao could not fit the basic defensive midfielder model we all know. He was oustanding going forward as well as protecting the midfield, something typical from the Southern school in Brazil. No surprise Lucas tries to follow this model.

Unfortunately, specialisation in midfield nowadays is becoming more and more common.

Interesting stuff, and applicable to Wilshere too at the minute I’d argue. It’d be nice if people stopped trying to pigeon hole players that way, eh?

Anyway, on to Tim Vickery’s reply. He explains the Brazilian ‘volante’ terms in more detail, then goes on to apply them to Lucas himself, while dealing with the Falcao comparisons. Note - this was at the time when Gago was Capello’s midfield general for Real Madrid.

Perhaps the classic example at the moment is with Argentina - the Mascherano and Gago combination at the heart of the midfield.
The former is the 1st volante - he sits more. The latter is the second volante, who will push forward more and knit.
You can see this often in the way that Brazil interprets 4-4-2.  In effect it’s a 4-2-2-2, with the midfield divided into the two more defensive players (volantes) and the two more attacking (meias).

Take the 1994 side - Mauro Silva sat - the 1st volante, Dunga pushed forward a bit more to knit the side together - the 2nd.
After the 94 success in Brazilian football everyone copied this model - but with low job security and limited time to work, the coaches ended up effectively playing 2 entirely defensive players as the volantes - like having 2 centre backs in front of the centre backs.  The logical conclusion of this is Gilberto Silva - a converted centre back - operating as the 1st volante.
Hence the reason for the fuss when Lucas emerged - he was seen as a genuine second volante - who in addition to dropping to recompose the marking, could also break forward with skill. For this reason he gained so many comparisons with Falcao - a bit far fetched, to be honest, although he showed a lot of promise to put him in Falcao’s class is stretching it a bit - but he was representing a type of player that Brazilian football has been short of for a while (the second volante in the last World Cup was Ze Roberto, a converted left back).

Interesting stuff again, eh? The more we see Lucas develop in the Englsh game, the more we see him “grow into himself”. Is it possible that the player they saw flourish in his domestic league has only now started to be able to impose that same game in a more demanding context?

As suggested by MilanKakaBaros, here’s his performance from last week’s game at Stamford Bridge - the video covers every touch from the little blonde bombshell on the day - the good and the bad.

Finished? What did you make of that then eh? It’s interesting, having watched that footage, to reflect on Tim Vickery’s closing words from 2008. Reading them a few years on, is it fair to say he’s now rising to the challenge and expectation? 

Personally I’ve been disappointed with his progress. I first wrote about him in World Soccer magazine almost 2 years ago after the South American Under-20s.  I said then that for all his strengths I thought he needed to take more responsibility for the build up play - he should be demanding the ball and organising the moves… Looks too timid.

I think that was entirely fair comment at the time. The flashes of potential were there, but something was lacking. But then players sometimes take a little longer to mature, especially when they operate in a system that maybe doesn’t bring out their strengths. Lucas has now asserted a genuine claim as Brazil’s starting ‘volante de contencion’ - but he can also participate further up the park. Remember the Champions League 4-4 against Chelsea a while ago? Gerrard sat in the stands as Lucas did a rather nice job of unsettling the Chelsea defence. Then the Europa League games last year - whenever he’s been tasked with making the play, he’s done it rather nicely (Pat Nevin being one of the few pundits to acknowledge the fact at the time - you wonder if he somehow renders people’s eyesight defunct when he does well).

When his team has the ball, this kid works best when he moves it first time, be it a short sideways ball or a slide ruler to a man ahead in space. When his team’s without the ball, his positioning has become better and better. He rarely needs to thunder into a tackle - he can increasingly do the Alonso trick of flicking the leg out to win possession or tip it to a team mate. And as we saw on Sunday, he can now truly do that in the most rarified of company. Not many people can dominate a midfield against Michael Essien. Far less against Essien, Lampard and Obi-Mikel. Possibly that overstates things a little - it’s not like he took the field by himself - the rest of the team rated pretty highly on the day. But his role was pivotal - as the ‘steering wheel’ tag implies.

Life becomes easier for certain players when all their team mates start taking responsibility for the the build up. Liverpool’s training has a new-found focus under Kenny Dalglish - possession. They pass, and they must move - find space. If they don’t, they find themselves penalised in training. When a team moves like that, a player like Lucas suddenly finds himself in his element. We’ll see his talent flourish in that context - in fact, we might see him grow into the player the Braziliants told us he might be.

—-
Post Script - taken from the following thread on The Liverpool Way, featuring comments from the Gremio fans on their then departing teenage hero.
http://forum.liverpoolway.co.uk/ff-football-forum/47183-lucas.html

As to myself, I prefer the “new Falcao” and not the “Brazilian Gerrard”

Most Europeans that talked to me about Lucas had the impression that he is a defensive midfielder, and did not understand the function of second volante, until i gave them some examples. i do not want to repeat myself as we discussed it in the transfers and rumors thread and everything was said there, I recommend to Canalla and European members interested to understand about Lucas, to read it there

I do not agree with you, Leone, about Lucas being more defensive. he is very talented and inteligent and also gives everything of himself so he can do many things, but the thing he does best, in my humble opinion is his projection asisting the attack, and he is always better when he has a real volante de contencion behind him.”

—-

“Falcao, Cerezo, are not Defensive Middlefield in the sense of the word. They are what was called here “medio-volantes” and not “cabeça-de-areas”, Those players are responsable for organizing the middlefield, not covering the defense like DMs should do.
However, people put all in the same pack this style of player and the DMs, because in europe, either you are a dm or a playmaker. They are just limited about football, what to do
Anyways, Lucas is not a DM in the Mauro Silva, Gilberto Silva, etc. sense, and I think he is not Gerrard like (perhaps spirit/leadership) player either.”

—-

it makes me want to contact fernando duarte and try to get further insight into these various shades of ‘volante’ and how these systems tend to work in brazilian domestic football.

————-

Post Post Script - Messrs Duarte and Vickery were both generous with their time and wrote detailed replies. It just shows you - there are journalists out there who genuinely love the game, and when questioned, will happily share their wisdom with us ‘students’. Kudos to them both!

 

 

Discussion

Posted by loblaw // February 10, 2011

Enjoyable piece that. I can remember Vickery saying that at the time, he posted it on his BBC blog i think? Was something i often found myself agreeing with, the responsibility bit, and it would frustrate the life out of me, because i knew there was a player there wanting to get out and show what he could do, but to often he would be too passive, allowing the game to pass him by.

That said, And you even see a bit of this in the Chelsea video, where Lucas is asking for the ball and Carra just doesn’t see him, completely ignores him. Gerrard used to be the same, but again, in the Chelsea video you can see Gerrard trust him with the ball, which results in them passing the ball out of defence,  where before he would have ignored him. That must be huge for his confidence.

So maybe it’s not that he’s greatly improved, but that his team-mates are simply giving him the ball more, showing real trust in him?

Any word on a new contract for the boy?

 

 

Posted by Ash Asani // February 10, 2011

Thanks Roy and enjoyable read, as always learn something new from your posts.

 

 

Posted by Paul Carpenter // February 10, 2011

Great article Roy.

I think Lucas must have one of the best defensive positional senses in the premier league.  He must have on of the highest interception rates.

One thing I have noticed is how he tends to stay deep for the first sixty minutes and then start to break forward in the last half hour.  In the Chelsea games as the Chelsea midfielders tired, Lucas was able to run straight through the middle of the park.  With a fresh Aurelio having been brought on, the two of them were able to push Chelsea back and relieve the pressure of the Liverpool defence.  I don’t know whether he is incredibly fit or the way he plays means he stays fresh throughout the game but the way he was able to still run when the other seven midfielders on the pitch couldn’t it reminded me of Owen Hargreaves famous man of the match performance for England a couple of years ago in the world cup.

 

 

Posted by @joescouse_lfc // February 10, 2011

Roy, a very interesting read. I recently posted a blog which focussed on Lucas as the fulcrum of the team. 

Without wanting to over-simplify what was a very fluid system, Lucas was the second volante against Chelsea, with Skrtel being the first ( For an illustration, see the link to my blog above which has the opta average player positions over the 90 minutes).

The significance for me is that neither Gerrard nor Meireles are at their best when playing second volante, so when we revert to a 4-2-3-1, we will be more balanced with a second disciplined midfielder alongside Lucas (see the line up for the       0-3 win v Wolves) rather than playing Gerrard or Meireles ( like against Fulham which was a much more nervy 1-0 win).

I love the notion of the first and second volante because it pretty much somes up where I see Lucas, be it in a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-3-1.

 

 

Posted by @joescouse_lfc // February 10, 2011

Blog referred to above is www.joescouse.blogspot.com

 

 

Posted by Ecuared // February 11, 2011

Lucas is slowly emerging into a top, reliable player. It must be said though, that he still fouls too often in danger areas. That foul he made on Mikel had me fuming, it was so pointless. I was sure they would score from the resulting free kick but we got away with it. He has to trust in the defenders.

But, he’s a proper footballer and he’s a fighter. He was having a bit of a rough first half against Chelsea, but he never dropped his head and emerged as one of the heroes of the match.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes one of the key players in our renaissance under Kenny, he’s a perfect pass and move player.

I also love his twitter account, you can see he loves the game, he’s always commenting on games being played across Europe and back in Brazil!

 

 

Posted by Dilks // February 11, 2011

Tis another nice piece Roy. I’ve spent many an afternoon pondering how Lucas will turn out as a footballer, we’re getting a fair idea with his current form, but i think he’s got more to offer, certainly in the final third of the pitch.

The volante thing is very interesting, and i think Vickery is right when he says Lucas is ideal for that 2nd volante role.

I’ve been thinking about which type of player we should buy to compliment Lucas, i’m sure Comolli will identify a centre midfielder, it’s just whether it’s a box to box type, allowing Lucas to sit, or an out and out holding player, meaning Lucas will become that 2nd volante.

I personally hope it’s a holding player we buy, M’Vila seems to be on the radar. I think it’d be a shame to see Lucas become just a holding midfielder. I don’t think he’ll ever be a 10-15 goals a season man, but it’d be nice to see him get into that kind of positions.

The only worry i have about Lucas becoming that 2nd volante is in the 09/10 season, he didn’t do that well in that role. Afterall, Mascherano was holding, performing the 1st volante role, why didn’t Lucas flourish in his more advanced role?

It all looks relatively simple, on paper. But then i began to ask questions about Lucas’ role last season, the circumstances of it all.

There’s no doubting Alonso’s sale was an issue, Lucas was suddenly expected to fill that void, but he wasn’t ready for it was he? I don’t blame him either, he’s not even the same type of player. So it was unfair to expect Lucas to perform as Xabi mk2. The team never got over the loss of Xabi, so why should Lucas have? Gerrard’s form dropped, Torres’ form dropped, both world class players, but it just illustrates how important the ‘team’ is.

Alonso’s saleI was unfortunate timing for Liverpool, and it hit Lucas more than anyone else, because he was the guy that carried the burden of replacing him.

Everyone’s seen the difference this season though, he’s taking responsibility in the heart of the midfield. Vickery’s comment back in 08 was fair, Lucas didn’t boss moves as he should have, but he is doing that now, he’s just more confident, that’s it.

I can’t wait to see him when Kenny gets all the players he wants, when he settles on a formation etc…. i think you’ll see him pushing forward more, and becoming even better than he already is. A winger will make the world of difference aswell, having someone who you can hit if you’re under pressure is vital, all to often Liverpool’s game has become compressed and the middle gets clogged up.

Cannot wait to see how it all pans out for Lucas and Liverpool.

Roll on number 19, with Lucas as the Samba heartbeat.

 

 

Posted by liverbnz // February 11, 2011

Dilks, a few reasons why I think the Lucas didn’t flourish last season - although he was very effective at times.

1)  Pressure - already a scapegoat in the eyes of a lot of fans, he was immediately thrust into the Alonso shaped hole. If he didn’t fill that hole adequately he was gonna hear it from the stands, and he did. He has an abundance of character, but the abuse he took would affect any individual. Now though, confidence seems to be up, even taking the ball of Gerrard’s feet against Stoke (?) and demanding the ball of Carragher - even though Carra will still ignore him on occasion.

2) Deep defence and Mascherano - For a lot of last season, we played quite a deep defensive line, and with Agger playing very seldom, Lucas was having to go back and retrieve the ball from his CBs deep into his own half, meaning he was starting attacks too deep to have enough influence. He didn’t appear to have the confidence to play the Alonso trademark - not the 40 yarder onto Dirk’s foot on the RW, but the low, fast balls into Gerrard’s feet, which would by-pass the entire midfield. His task was made even worse by his midfield partner (and Carra who was still at it vs Chelsea) refusing to pass the ball to him and instead hoofing it up the field.

3) Then we had Gerrard and Torres moping around for the most of last season, not playing with the required desire nor how their reputations should have us expect. I can recall many instances were both would receive a perfectly good ball from Lucas, but would lazily lose control,  head down a blind alley or try the impossible and totaly ignore the run that Lucas had made ahead of them. Generally though and has been mentioned a million times, it seemed like the whole team were in mourning at the loss of Alonso - bar a few, so Lucas flourishing in 09/10 was always going to be a huge ask.

Sangria’s (RAWK) posts on Lucas are excellent to read, and he seems to think that Lucas is fundamental to Dalglish’s plans, which is music to the ear if I’m honest. Dalglish seems to have a lot of faith in him, and trusts him to play either the 1st volante (vs Chelsea) or the 2nd volante (vs Stoke).

 

 

Posted by yorkykopite // February 11, 2011

Interesting article Roy, particularly the comparison with Wilshere (who, I think, has a tad more dynamism than Lucas).

The video is revealing too. We’ve often talked about the reluctance of Carragher (especially) to pass the ball to Lucas. A popular theory was that he didn’t trust Lucas enough to give him the ball under pressure. There may be something in that, particularly when you factor in the possibility that Lucas, under pressure, might legitimately choose to return the ball to his centre back - which Carra never looked forward to. But my reading is not that Carra doesn’t trust Lucas. It’s that he often simply doesn’t see him. Take a look at 0:34 on the video. Lucas knows he’s in loads of space because he’s just released the ball. He wants it straight back because he’s got a fair idea that he can carry the ball into the empty territory he’s just vacated. He’s also clearly demanding the pass. Arms out wide and presumably yelling. Carra is oblivious. He can’t see Lucas because part of his mind has closed down and he’s already commited to pumping the ball up. We see this a lot. 

Another thing on the vid is 2:24 (and to a lesser degree at 2:51) - the Lucas tackle where he simply accelerates into an opponent and appears to take the ball by simply timing his steps. He does quite a bit. There’s no discernible backlift to the tackle, and therefore little time for the player on the ball to decide to feint or feather the ball back into his body. It’s the tackling equivalent of (the great) Ronaldo’s shooting style, where the shot appeared to be part of the run and you looked in vain for extra backlift.

A lot of ‘experts’ are going to have to eat humble pie over Lucas.

 

 

Posted by koolkamal // February 11, 2011

Very insightful article. Since before we bought him I was hoping we’d sign him. I was over the moon when we did. He has all the qualities of a truly great footballer and will go down as one. For a couple years he was in constant development and adaptation. Adapting to a new country and also developing certain aspects of his game that may not have been his strongest. Playing him alongside Mascherano I saw it more as having to develop that defensive aspect of his game to make him an even more ‘all rounder’ So now he’s able to play that first and second volante role if we play that way or he’s even able to patrol that entire midfield area by himself.

He has great positioning probably one of the best in the team. Reads the game really well, great movement, great passer, comfortable with the ball at his feet, couple of his most understated qualities are 1st the sheer amount of headers he wins in midfield and how often each of those headers find a teammate - that while may not count as much to others means that in winning those headers he turns defence to attack instantly taking pressure off our defence (the same with his ‘stand and tackle’ instead of sliding in). 2nd is how quickly he gets around the pitch. One minute he’d be on the edge of the opponent penalty area and then the next in our penalty area helping out the defence. He doesn’t have blistering pace but he seems to glide almost effortlessly across the pitch (which probably also has a lot to do with his reading of the game and positioning and movement).

He’s one of my favourite players in the game today. It’s just intelligent purely simple football. Something which he strives to perfect.

 

 

Posted by GeniusChrist // February 14, 2011

Great stuff, it’s awesome to see some acclaim landing on Lucas’ doorstep (even the main tabloids are slowly starting to clamber onto the bandwagon). It’s been too long in waiting for me. It’s sypmtomatic of the way people view football though, as was mentioned one of the things most stated was “but he doesn’t do anything”, this to me smacks of the ‘he doesn’t dribble past players and he doesn’t score goals, so he’s shit’ type of football fan.

Anybody who has played the game and understands it even a little can see that Lucas is an intelligent & talented footballer, one of his biggest assets is his character, for such young lad coming from S.America and dealing with the constant criticism and boos from his own fans he showed a tremendous amount of it. I never ever seen him look disinterested or scared, he always had his head up and always looked for the ball. It also appears he is becoming the player I’ve expected to see him develop into, i’d imagine it had a lot to with other players performances dropping off last season and this whereas his didn’t (i’m not saying he was never below par, but he didn’t go missing), and the freedom our players have to play under Kenny.

Quality aside this is the kind of player that is the first name on my teamsheet.

 

 

Posted by royhendo // February 16, 2011

Sorry I haven’t had time to reply to your excellent comments folks. I’m in the middle of a project going live at work, and I literally haven’t had time! Will do asap.

 

 

Posted by Arsenal Column // February 18, 2011

Another terrific article. (I’ve read it before but fell compelled to respond after seeing Wilshere v Barca and Lucas v Prague, albeit in a low key game in comparison).

I feel he is a talented player, very all-rounded but is he one that works better in theory than practice? As a cabeca-de-area myself, I’m a staunch defender of Denilson at Arsenal but there is a good reason for many fans criticism - that he hasn’t the charisma or assertiveness to really control the team for a whole season.

He has brains although arguably Lucas is actually a better player and more all-rounded than him.

But then again those arguing likewise, Lucas has no assertiveness, should be themselves thrown in a Merseyside derby in replacement for your captain and icon and imbue calmness to the game and not to mention score the winning goal.

On a tactical level however and it’s difficult to predict what his best role is. His passing range is not Alonso’s quality while if he plays a second volante/creative role, he is not yet very adapt at making the killer ball. So it seems best, if at the moment he has these players around him; to protect his - not flaws - but areas in need of development.

(Tactically, if you look at the Chelsea game, the fact that they played a diamond helped him as he had an out ball all the time (look at his chalkboard graphics allowing him to pass wide) and that there was a lot of work for the two shuttlers in the diamond to do to press him hard enough.)

I actually think he is a strong minded player and he’ll do a good job but for once I’m quite unsure about him and Denilson. Then again, Mikel has improved massively as a ball circulator and I though he’d be best, at 19, higher up the pitch.

 

 

Posted by royhendo // February 22, 2011

Joe - cheers for the link to your blog mate - that looks like it’s shaping up nicely mate and if I get time I’ll have a browse later on - looking good.

I agree to an extent on the fouling Ecuared - I wonder sometimes on that front if it’s a lack of raw pace, but you’d expect that to improve with experience - the positioning aspect, you know?

On the trust issue Yorky mate - it prompts an interesting question really doesn’t it? Are some players blind to the simplest wall pass as an option? Barca obviously use it all the time just for the sake of keeping the ball moving - like it’s illegal to keep it at your feet and that you must move it to keep changing the picture - but some players do seem blind to it, as it if’s somehow out of the question to just return the ball where it came from.

Obviously there are deeper issues with Carra on that front, but I suspect it’d also be true of me at times, simply due to the way I was coached as a kid. Does that make sense?

ArsenalColumn mate - nice to see you here again. The point you raise on the diamond is key really. Yorky above has been arguing for years that Lucas would slot into your Arsenal side and flourish, precisely because he’d have first touch options. That’s something he’s been starved of at LFC and it’s only in recent weeks that the older, more traditional approach of actually finding space to receive the ball is gonna gradually see itself bed in under Dalglish. He’s had to become a different kind of player over the years really, and he’s done a good job of that. You just get a feeling that the assertion is gonna come now. Ferguson always said that - players become self-determined around 26 years of age and tended to be more tentative before that age, save for the precocious ones. At 24, he’s approaching that stage isn’t he?

He’s clearly not at Fabregas’s level and I’d agree that Wilshere has greater potential, but it’s gonna be interesting to see how he matures from here.

 

 

Posted by hassinator // February 22, 2011

great thread.  first up you answer or address a lot of my thoughts while reading your op but in a nutshell i think vickery’s comments about being ‘timid’ were the most telling about lucas in terms of ammunition for his detractors.  he has weathered the storm and is now at an age where we should start to reap the benefits of our persistence.  he’s looked better and better of late but perhaps still has the damp air of the class loser which seems to attract unfair victimisation from refs - that was never a yellow and yet nothing given in return when he gets a kick?  i like the lad and want him to do well but my enthusiasm is perhaps tempered by the fact that the early enthusiasm does not so far add up to the promise expedited by falcao.  that said i’m well up for him sticking that comment right down my throat.

 

 

Posted by Rob (666) // February 26, 2011

Just caught up with this: I honestly think Lucas has to do something about his timidity or lack of dynamism if he is to inhabit the 2nd volante role as effectively as should be possible for him. A further thought: how much of his good match against Chelsea was down to the formation suiting him?

 

 

Posted by yorkykopite // February 28, 2011

I want to revise something in my comment. It comes from watching Lucas yesterday, and then watching Wilshere. Wilshere does not have a “tad” more dynamism than Lucas. He has a life-time’s collection more. This isn’t to denigrate Lucas - who remains a key player for Liverpool. It’s just to note what a fantastic player Wilshere already is for Arsenal. Gazza with brains and commitment.

 

 

Posted by hassinator // March 09, 2011

when’s he going to be offered a new contract?

 

 

Posted by FootballFarrago // April 13, 2011

Great piece, really well researched and backed up. Agree with Ecuared that he does still foul quite a lot, saw a couple of games for Brazil at the Olympics back in 2008 where every other contribution was a foul, while against United this season he did it too.  However, he does seem to have the ability to go unnoticed by the referee and not get booked for persistent fouling, and often it’s probably tactical, so it’s working for him.

 

 

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